On suicides

[NH watcher]

Copy and pasted from Windy's thread on her EHE, here is my further response, specific to suicides often having a "frightening" experience to tell (if they are given opportunity to return) ... as you will read below, I am not implying, by any means, that all suicides go straight to hell, as many traditional religions believe; however, that is not to say, that suicide is an accepted position within the supernatural realm; suicide is, by its very definition, disruptive to whatever original intention one's life was/is to be:

This is all interesting.  I have both personal and academic experience with suicide: academic by way of reading accounts such as Fenimore and others (she overdosed on drugs, with the intent to kill herself), and personal due to my father's own suicide (he shot himself, shortly after he and my stepmother separated).  The majority of suicides who return most likely will share a "frightening" experience.  Fenimore describes being in hell, this incredibly isolated and lonely place, and all of a sudden, she heard a booming voice, and knew it was God.  God was stern and direct, "WHY DID YOU DO THIS?"  Instantly, she saw her whole life reviewed, all the challenges, and all the missed opportunities to make things better, due to her own depression and unforgiveness.  She had no answer to God; she instantly knew that she had done wrong, taking her life, shortchanging herself and others of what the original span of her life was supposed to be.  It was only when she felt another Presence with her and God, did she feel some hope again.  It was the Redeemer (Christ), who then went to the Father on her behalf and argued her case.  She knew immediately that the Father accepted Christ's judgment completely, in all things.  That was when, she knew that she would be given another chance.

My father's experience was different, and only came to me in a vision at his grave, four months after he died.  I saw him in the apartment that he had recently moved into, alone and abandoned.  (We found out later that he had ordered the gun almost a month ahead, from the moment he knew that his second marriage was falling apart.)  My father had accepted Christ in his twenties, but soon became lost in worldly pursuits, some of which he felt necessary to impress his own father.  He became an alcoholic, leading to my parents' divorce, and only settled down after his second marriage ... for a time.  Now, he was back alone, without a job, a total failure by worldly standards ... and his second wife finally said, "Enough."  (I don't fault her at all.)

In my vision, I saw him lying in his bed, alone in this apartment, the TV on in the distance.  He took the gun, quivered a little, but quickly returned to the intent he had had for at least a month.  He pressed the trigger, and the bullet came out of the gun.  That is when time slowed down in my vision, to the nanosecond.  Obviously, he was going to die; the bullet was aimed right to his temple.  As time slowed, and I could see this moment just before his soul would be leaving his body, I saw that Christ was right there in front of him.  Christ knew the pain, the loneliness, and saw my father's regret over doing this final act, which would be irreversible.  Somehow, my father remembered his earlier spiritual commitment; I could tell he looked to Christ and had to accept now whatever fate he was given.  Christ looked at my father with sympathy, and simply said:

"Rick, come home."

And that was that ... LOVE brought him home.  A love that he never felt his whole life from this world.  Only a supernatural love ... from where we all came.

[Goldengirl]

Thank you so much NH. I believe that we are all connected, and science is showing us this more every day. Our sense of separation, which is a pervasive, but incorrect feeling, leads to all misery.

We are all parts of the One, never alone, and never unloved. We realize that when we go home, and I'm glad that you received the vision that let you see the love and homecoming waiting for him. I can only hope it gave you lasting solace. I feel honored that you have shared this with us.

[ThePaladin]

What happens after the suicide depends on the reasons one commits suicide. Sometimes the soul is so traumatized that it knows it will never be able to heal in this reality. So it leaves to get the help it needs.

Other times, I suspect the person is just tired and gives up the struggle to live rather than continuing to find their way.

Regardless of the reason, suicide is the only time one will die before their agreed-upon time.

[Eagle1]

Hey, spiritual experts....Sorry I'm getting into this discussion late. I was just wondering whether suicide can be karmic. I am talking about both sides....perhaps the unsuccessful attempts like Windy talked about 20 attempts without success. That sounds somewhat karmic to me, but what about the other way around? Could it be in someone's karmic profile to be suicidal or preplanned to carry out a suicide?

[NH watcher]

All the comments are gratifying to read.  Suicide is a difficult matter regardless, and I cannot fathom a universal order where a soul comes to Earth with the expressed intention to commit suicide one day.  That said, God created us all to be "free-will" agents, not robots, including the freedom to take our lives prematurely.  I do believe God may nudge those to different outcomes, as in the case of Windy's friend, whose mother just happened to decide to return home, thereby discovering her daughter in the closet bleeding to death.  How often I have heard the "still, small voice" inside of me and ignored it, not telling what different courses my life would have taken, if I had listened.  By coming to this forum and others, I am hopeful that I am getting better at listening.

In my father's case, the vision indicated to me that he regretted his action, just at the moment when it was too late to prevent it.  As a family, we all concluded that there was very little we could have done to prevent his intention beforehand.  He had the tools inside of him, to heal himself, and over and over, refused to use them.  Starting with his spiritual conversion in his 20s, along with my mother, but as often happens, that is when the Evil One really gets going with disruptions and temptations in one's life.  My father was continually comparing himself to others, chiefly his father, who by all accounts, was a worldly success (though his father was an alcoholic too, just was able to hide it better).  My dad went through five treatment programs, mingled with various celebrities at one, but he chose only to take away from all this therapy, the ability to deceive even more.  Rock bottom for my dad, of course, was his suicide.  A very precarious place to be, in order to hit rock bottom.

When I had the vision, I had already come to terms with the possibility of his being lost forever, in that place of loneliness and isolation.  It was hard to accept, but then a part of me was tempted to retribution, due to the hell he put me through in my childhood, and all the twisted lies he told me throughout.  His childhood was one of being ignored, and so he went overboard in his parenting, only in a bad way.  A month before he committed suicide, drunk as a skunk, our last conversation was his telling me to "F*** the world, f*** everyone, f*** it all."  My father just could never get beyond his unforgiveness.

Now I am more than eager to see him again, and thereby truly forget the man he was.  It will be a pleasant surprise.

[Goldengirl]

Hey, spiritual experts....Sorry I'm getting into this discussion late. I was just wondering whether suicide can be karmic. I am talking about both sides....perhaps the unsuccessful attempts like Windy talked about 20 attempts without success. That sounds somewhat karmic to me, but what about the other way around? Could it be in someone's karmic profile to be suicidal or preplanned to carry out a suicide?

Ah, these are the nuances I was hoping to see discussed here! Since suicide is taking away God's greatest gift to us, life, I would agree with NH in saying that I don't think one would come back to commit suicide. Some actions are free will, which generates the karmic reaction, good or bad. As I've thought before, I think karma is more like a mirror of experience, drawing us towards our higher selves, if we are willing to read the signs. But I do believe that we should approach our experiences as life lessons. For example, my brother and I have never been close. Even as children I knew he didn't like me, although why was never clear. (I was the "good" kid, and that may have played a part, but this is something I've always just known). Now, the past could give a reason, but more importantly, I choose not to let it guide me. He chooses the negative path, and I choose the positive. It's always a personal choice. Now, I'm no angel, that's for sure. Someone cuts me off in traffic and you'd think I was a sailor on shore leave. I'm working on that one! But the point being, it's about progress, not perfection. There's a saying about how anger only burns the person holding it, and I believe that's true. More recently, it's been discussed that folks here seem to be experiencing more personal trials lately than usual. I lost my mom and my two sweet dogs last year. But I think that maybe we're being tempered, like steel. We have the opportunity to work at this and make a positive difference. OK, that's enough of me being long-winded!  

[Shadewolf]

Hey, spiritual experts....Sorry I'm getting into this discussion late. I was just wondering whether suicide can be karmic. I am talking about both sides....perhaps the unsuccessful attempts like Windy talked about 20 attempts without success. That sounds somewhat karmic to me, but what about the other way around? Could it be in someone's karmic profile to be suicidal or preplanned to carry out a suicide?

Ah, these are the nuances I was hoping to see discussed here! Since suicide is taking away God's greatest gift to us, life, I would agree with NH in saying that I don't think one would come back to commit suicide. Some actions are free will, which generates the karmic reaction, good or bad. As I've thought before, I think karma is more like a mirror of experience, drawing us towards our higher selves, if we are willing to read the signs. But I do believe that we should approach our experiences as life lessons. For example, my brother and I have never been close. Even as children I knew he didn't like me, although why was never clear. (I was the "good" kid, and that may have played a part, but this is something I've always just known). Now, the past could give a reason, but more importantly, I choose not to let it guide me. He chooses the negative path, and I choose the positive. It's always a personal choice. Now, I'm no angel, that's for sure. Someone cuts me off in traffic and you'd think I was a sailor on shore leave. I'm working on that one! But the point being, it's about progress, not perfection. There's a saying about how anger only burns the person holding it, and I believe that's true. More recently, it's been discussed that folks here seem to be experiencing more personal trials lately than usual. I lost my mom and my two sweet dogs last year. But I think that maybe we're being tempered, like steel. We have the opportunity to work at this and make a positive difference. OK, that's enough of me being long-winded!  

Being tempered is, I think, a good way to describe it. In my own experience there's been a few times right on the edge, thinking it would be so easy to "reboot" and step off the ledge or jump in front of a rig because life was too hard at the time. this was when I was much younger and had no life experience or better judgement to speak of yet. At the time all I had was alternating between being numb from the shock of being abandoned at birth by my family, and unbridled anger stemming from that. That's been a huge distraction for much of my life trying to balance those 2 things out from the rest of what life is supposed to be. Eventually I at least got to meet some of my blood relatives including my Mom who apparently never wanted kids and had a few and gave them all away (the irresponsibility of which also pissed me off). Never got to meet my Dad, he wouldn't answer the door when I showed up and I only got to talk to him for about 2 minutes on the phone once, I don't get what his problem was to continue to reject me even appearing to talk and ask questions.

So later in life, my body chemistry got really out of whack and I wound up severely depressed, and one day woke up so depressed that I never wanted to get out of bed again, it was literally a crushing darkness like I was drowning, and everything my family tried to do got an angry leave-me-alone reaction because I was sick and in pain and nothing was helping. I literally felt like there was no way out and there were some bad circumstances happening to our family as well with hugely high stress levels, so my husband dragged me into my office at work and I got into chat with our employee assistance people and into a doctor right away. I could tell, even when feeling that way, that there was something seriously chemically wrong with me (my thyroid had quit working at all) It took a year and a bit to get recovered from that. The scary part was when at the bottom looking up was the realisation of how easy to slip away it could've been, and the crushing part of it made that really attractive as -the- way out. Interestingly enough, every encounter with the rock bottom i've had, has also been accompanied by the knowledge that rebooting on purpose was not why I came here, and would just waste time and alot of effort on my and other peoples' part. Like seriously, did i really want to go through the experience of being a baby and a toddler again, it was bad enough the first time, and I wouldn't be guaranteed of getting a body that functioned any better than the one I've got which is injured and broken but still more or less works well enough to get the job done. So why not work to make improvements to this one so life gets at least somewhat easier as it were? Being able to get through the bad parts, however possible has indeed had the effect of tempering me against future instances, it has also taught me to ignore any perceived limits I have or that people try to put on me and just push through them whether it hurts or not.

[Goldengirl]

Thanks for sharing your story Shadewolf, and your perspective. You are a very wise soul.

[NH watcher]

Shadewolf, I loved your sentence:

Interestingly enough, every encounter with the rock bottom i've had, has also been accompanied by the knowledge that rebooting on purpose was not why I came here, and would just waste time and alot of effort on my and other peoples' part.

I just can't believe that God intentionally gave us a "kill switch." God gave us free will, of course, including the ability to murder, whether ourselves or others. But not every decision that we can freely make, is a wise decision, and true wisdom often takes a lifetime to obtain.